Only ‘Ellen’s‘ identity stays a puzzle, indeed there is apparently no-one called Ellen or Helen, except maybe an enthusiastic ‘Eleanor‘ to your Joanna’s front side (Eleanor out of Aquitaine, mom away from Joanna’s dad Queen John)
Hi, individuals. It’s it is interesting; what i would not possess made available to get access to this short article twenty-five years before as i is contrasting and you may creating Here End up being Dragons!
The key function of that it exercise is to try, from the a peek at genealogist’s views about the subject and by contacting specific understood new present, to choose who had been the caretaker off Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Is she Joanna, spouse of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, passed away. March 1237) or is she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch from Rhos, mistress of Llywelyn, created circa. 1168, died??
I shall stick to this having a vacation research on you’ll existence out of a beneficial ded Susanna, offered out to King Henry 111 as good hostage in 1228 together with her child custody getting offered so you can Sir Nicholas Verdun along with his spouse Clementia.
This new opinions of one’s Genealogists that i features examined are only one to, viewpoints, as well as disagree greatly. Zero definite facts can be acquired either way, but i have to state that the majority keep to possess Gwladus to get the newest daughter of Joanna. This is also true of genealogists of descendants out-of the fresh new De Braose nearest and dearest, nonetheless they ily as tied to the Welsh and you will English royal domiciles!
The ensuing list of Llywelyn’s multiple legitimate and you can illegitimate people looks to-be generally acknowledged from the all the genealogists that i keeps examined with the exception of differences more whether no. 9 very existed. This new times Japonya sevimli kД±zlar away from beginning the following also are debated from the specific:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, produced circa.1199, passed away 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, created circa.1206, died 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1206? died circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1208? died circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince of Wales, created circa 1208 (1211?) (doubts about it date, see later on), died twenty five March 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1210, passed away 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – created circa 1210, possible dual so you’re able to Angharad?
- ‘Helen‘, or ‘Susanna‘, produced circa 1214? Passed away 1259?
There is certainly far conflict across the name of your own moms and dads out of these people. There can be standard contract your merely particular college students of Llywelyn’s e Prince out-of Wales and you will Ellen (Helen) whom married (1) John the fresh new Scot, child of earl regarding Chester and you can (2) Robert de Quincy. Even in the event view is split over the parents from Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you can Susanna, a lot of genealogists I have examined slim for the their mother becoming Joanna.
This is partially using their supposed times away from birth because the well as his or her marriage ceremonies to different marcher lords exactly who, one to supposes, would have sought to fall into line their houses to that particular of their neighbour, the newest Prince off Northern Wales and his awesome partner, the fresh new king out-of England’s daughter. It is believed this type of lords of your own March would not have experienced so much attention otherwise governmental determination inside marrying out-of its sons for the illegitimate daughters from an effective Welsh prince with good Welsh lady.
As to what names of those youngsters, if or not from the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anyone else, they certainly were most of the entitled after members of Llywelyn’s relatives:
Ken, we’re entirely on the personal debt
Llywelyn’s mother is called ‘ed ‘Susanna‘ off Gwynedd. His paternal grandmother try named ‘Gwladus‘. The mother and father out of his grandmother Susanna, was basically ‘Gruffudd‘ ap Cynan and ‘Angharad‘ away from Flint and you will each other their names got so you can Llywelyn’s students. So it Susanna as well as had a sister called ‘Gwenllian‘, the same name since Llywelyn’s great-grandmother.
